Working Stockdog

herbertholmes · Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:15 am Post subject:

I have 22 x 12 vision,so any judiciery officiale in the world would have ruled in my favor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. you are blind as as bat. Besides, it it a moot point, beverly is going to get all of our dogs and point earning things converted to AKC dollars, so to hell with all of us.
But on the serious side of all af this, if mr kensmuir will allow, my take on all of this point earning, title seeking, usbcha presidential wantings,akc titles, best cowdog, greatest stockman, novice ribbons earning, sheepdogs are the best, usbcha finals are the ultimate thing, is,,,,,, goddamn everyone it all if it is not all about a border collie dog that can do an honest days work. And that my fine friends is an official position, Herbert M. Holmes

Kelliwic Border Collies · Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:05 am Post subject:

Kensmuir · Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:26 am Post subject:

"...goddamn everyone it all if it is not all about a border collie dog that can do an honest days work..."

I don't think, Hub, that you'll find anyone on this forum disagreeing with that at all.

What matters to many of us is how we define an "honest days work".

Whether we like the responsibility or not - whether we can make money with them or not - whether we want to isolate certain populations or not - the definition of what our dogs are is currently in our hands. The future of the dogs, and what they become - is being defined (or REdefined) right now.

And many of us think that is a more critical issue than making money or increasing membership.

And I think that's what these discussions are about.
_________________
Bill Gary
Kensmuir, Working Stockdog Center
W8101 690th Ave
River Falls, WI 54022
715.426.9877

Kensmuir · Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:48 am Post subject:

Beverly writes:

"...I don't care what the akc does. They are a bunch of idiots..."

Beverly, whenever I talk with akc people they usually mention your dogs as dual registered dogs that do well in isds style trials.

If that is so - and you have dual registered your dogs - does the above statement - and other apparently anti-akc statements you wrote - indicate that you have changed your mind about akc registration?
_________________
Bill Gary
Kensmuir, Working Stockdog Center
W8101 690th Ave
River Falls, WI 54022
715.426.9877

herbertholmes · Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:23 am Post subject:

I would have to say that a definition of a days work is just that, a dog that can work all day, and I dont mean riding around in the pick up with me either, but actually doing a continous days activity on a livestock operation,dayin and day out, at avery high level of competency. However, there is very little of that left in the country.the face of the border collie owner has changed. I did not enter into this conversation early, but would have said that I do particulary like the position the border collie is in vis-a-vis the vast majority of all of us writing here. Not a single one of us has the work available for a dog to make it a GOOD one. So before we get on our high horse, lets examine our own personal activities with the dogs. I think we will find that we are all "hobbiest", no matter what level of trialing we do. That is lowering the standards of our dogs.We all talk the talk, but I do know of anyone that really walks the walk. I do not support the AKC at all. I do not like their activities period. I did not know last years cattle judge, and the one from two years ago were so deeply involved in akc activites. I will ask next years candidates about their akc incolvment.
I do not know the person Carol Campion is quoting from another list, and I was not at the trial mentioned, and no one was there representing the handlers association.
Is there any other questions regarding the rumored HA AKC affiliation?

stockdogranch · Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:26 am Post subject:

Okay, I'll play devil's advocate here:

Bev Lambert · Just got here Joined: 21 Aug 2007 Posts: 5

everly, whenever I talk with akc people they usually mention your dogs as dual registered dogs that do well in isds style trials.

If that is so - and you have dual registered your dogs - does the above statement - and other apparently anti-akc statements you wrote - indicate that you have changed your mind about akc registration?

Weird. Almost all of my dogs are dual registered, but not with the AKC with the CBCA so I can try and win Amanda's CN money and so I can run in the Canadian Finals when they are held in Kingston.

I do not own a single dog with any kind of an AKC registration. I do not have anything to do with the AKC NOTHING NADA absolutely nothing. I don't judge their trials, I don't show in conformation I do do obedience and I sure don't send them any money to register my dogs.

I don't know who has said this to you Bill but I sure appreciate you giving me a chance to respond to it. What a weird thing for someone to say about me I can't even imagine anyone at the AKC knowing my name let alone saying I register my dogs with them. Who do you know there that is saying this sort of stuff to you?

Beverly

herbertholmes · Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:00 am Post subject:

I just read my post from this morning. It should say that I do NOT like where our dogs are at this time.

I will prattle on a bit though. These dogs have been evolving since the first trial a hundred years ago. And 99% of that evolution came about because someone wanted to win more trials. We do not have to like that but it is a fact. hmh

Bev Lambert · Just got here Joined: 21 Aug 2007 Posts: 5

I should read over my own replies I said I do do obedience what I meant to say (and anyone who has heard me trying to call my dogs can testify to) is I DON"T do obedience.

Beverly

Kensmuir · Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:19 am Post subject:

Well, Bev, that's a load off my mind.

We do clinics and such at our place, and quite often we get "other" affiliated folks here - (Derek Scrimgeour found it very "interesting" to be working with his first aussies this spring) - and it seems in several discussions, you were given as an example of a "crossover" trainer/handler.

It'll be nice to tell people that isn't so.

I also remember a discussion we had on an earlier version of this forum (that got hacked and disappeared) where you were, if not promoting, at least defending, dual registration as a "not harmful" thing - so it's good to hear you haven't been lured into that venue - I think, as Sarah has pointed out, that it can be easy money for some.

I also think it's a good thing to take some of Amanda's money...helps the trade deficet...and is extremely patriotic ;)
_________________
Bill Gary
Kensmuir, Working Stockdog Center
W8101 690th Ave
River Falls, WI 54022
715.426.9877

grscott · Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:30 am Post subject:

Glenn Firchow · Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:43 am Post subject:

Howdyjabo · Got a lot to say Joined: 28 Nov 2004 Posts: 569

I swore I wasn't going to post anymore- but I can't let this one slip by.

Hubert- you claim no one on here truly works their dogs anymore- well I do.
and theres lots more. You just don't hear of them- as they find the environment unwelcoming .
Trialing is doomed to the invasion and perversion- till the focus of trialing gets back to its roots.
And I see NO efforts or support to that effect.

I think its too late- and think that there needs to be a huge split-- ABCA and USBCHA need to decide which side of the split they want to be on- and get on and do it UPFRONT. Funny I said that 20 yrs ago too................ and in that time of waffling all they have accomplished is losing the farmers and ranchers support which may have been the subversive goal of most members anyhow-

Karen
walking the walk AND talking the talk

Kensmuir · Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:56 am Post subject:

Thank you, Karen.
_________________
Bill Gary
Kensmuir, Working Stockdog Center
W8101 690th Ave
River Falls, WI 54022
715.426.9877

Howdyjabo · Got a lot to say Joined: 28 Nov 2004 Posts: 569

Heres a question for the breeders / trialers--

When was the last time you heard anyone bragging about the dogs that they got placed and doing real money making farm/ranch work?

When I started that was the main goal of the "bigshot" breeders as a bench mark for their breeding program. Its not even a sidebar consideration anymore.

And With reason---- theres no glory,respect or money in it. Thats what needs to change.