Working Stockdog

[Jayden]

I have a question for some of the more seasoned handlers out there. I know this is a long post, so I apologize in advance!

First, a little background, in case you’re wondering. I’ve been interested in herding dogs for a long time. It started out as a curiosity and respect for the working dogs that I was introduced to as a kid. We always had dogs but, it’s sad to say, their main job was to bark at visitors. The herding dogs I met were not trial dogs – just working dogs that would turn up at cattle roundups and brandings where we’d go to help Dad’s friends out. We had horses and some occasional cattle. Nothing serious enough to make my old man think he needed a working dog of his own. Just for reference, he’s an old cowboy whose philosophy in life is he never wants to do a task that he can’t do from the back of a horse.

I met a friend some years ago who has border collies. She trials and trains dogs and introduced me to the wonderful world of stockdog handling. She started me out easy and let me try a couple of her older dogs. Next thing I knew I was borrowing one to try out in a trial – just for fun. Now I’ve got a couple of dogs and a few sheep. My husband had cattle when I met him and I always figured I’d find a way to get them dog broke but he sold out of the cow business before I could manage. I’m not the type to try working my dogs on cattle that have never been worked by dogs before - it seems like a good way to get them killed, so that chance passed me by.

Getting along to my question: I’ve been studying at this handling thing, taking lessons and clinics from some excellent handlers, reading books, watching videos, running in a few trials, and once in awhile doing some honest work. I’ve met lots of great people and have learned a tremendous amount about working dogs and livestock. I also know that the knowledge I’ve acquired is just a drop in the bucket compared to what there is to know, what the dogs know, and the range of experiences one can have while working with stock dogs. I’m getting to the point that I know I make mistakes, can see some of the mistakes, in some cases know what I need to do to correct it, but when it comes time to put that into action my reaction time and reasoning time don’t match up. I guess this is all just a long-winded way of saying that I’m feeling frustrated at my slowness in translating my knowledge into action. Luckily the dogs and the sheep and my friend are all willing to forgive me, but some days I wonder if I’ll break through these growing pains. Naturally the years have been laced with life (marriage, work, school, etc) but I’m too stubborn to give up and I feel like I owe it to my dogs to continue.

I took this quote from another thread because I feel like the students in question: “I used to teach military pilots how to fly jets. Do you have any idea how many times I would often see the same mistake made by the same student pilot before he finally got it? Then multiply that by multiple student pilots over the years making the same mistakes. It was enough to make some instructors scream at the poor slobs...” Nobody has screamed at me yet, but I’ve made up for that by screaming at myself. Some days I feel like the novice from hell, making mistakes and not “getting it.” Of course all of this isn’t to say that I don’t have fun with the dogs. They bring me so much joy that it’s unreal. Their natural instincts and desire to please amaze me, and I count my two dogs among my best friends.

If anybody’s made it this far, thanks for reading my post. I’m just wondering if and when this dog handling thing might begin to feel natural, or maybe if there’s ever a day when you wake up and say, “I’ve arrived” (I wish!!). What I’m wondering most of all is if and when the learning curve might finally smooth out.

[Goose]

I am looking forward to the answers.
I train horses and teach students.
I am a lot nicer now that I take lessons myself!

[Amelia]

I grew up showing horses, and have owned horses and ridden all my life. I learned to team rope in my 30's, and the man who taught me once told me; "after you've been at this a while, you'll wake up one day and realize that you can't ride and you can't rope."

For me, it was the same with dogs. I think the wake up comes at different times for different people, and you'll know it when it happens.

Cheers,
_________________
Amelia Smith
www.BorderSmith.com
http://bordersmith.blogspot.com/

[denice.r]

Jayden,

Rest easy. Knowing you have so much more to learn is a huge step in that direction. Jack Knox has been working dogs all his life. He has been teaching at clinics for over 30 years. He still says he learns something from each dog. Working stock dogs is so incredibly complex because each dog brings something different to the table. I have not been working with these dogs all that long but it does get easier and begins to make sense. You are doing the right things - stick with someone who has more experience, go to good clinics and try to watch tons of people work dogs. As you learn you will also learn what to watch for. You will begin to watch where the handler is moving and how that affects the dog. It is one of those things that you have to know enough to know what to watch and what questions to ask. It will come. I found the best way to learn for me was getting a fully trained dog then getting help with a young dog and I have progressed from there. I also started with sheep first and then got a dog to help. Since there was real work to get done we had little choice but to figure it out. I'd be happy to speak with you more my email is denice.r@lycos.com
Hang in there
Denice

[Gloria Atwater]

Oh, Jayden, you are not alone!

I think there are time in a sheepdogger's life that the learning curve is steeper than others. Lord knows I've crashed and burned more times than I care to think, and only now, after almost 10 years of training and handling my own dogs, it's starting to feel like I kind of know something.

Kind of.

My background is that hubby and I cowboyed and packed mules for years, and always "had dogs." But whatever those dogs did for us was just what came to 'em naturally. We didn't do much in the way of formal training. That didn't come until later, when we'd quit cowboying, settled down, and I discovered "recreational" herding training.

Today, I am at a point where I feel relatively confident in my ability to start my own pups. I've a 20 month old boy who is coming along quite nicely, and although I know he could go further/faster in the hands of a seasoned pro, I'm pleased with our progress. And I'm excited about starting his 6 month old sister, when she comes of age next summer.

It's a good feeling to be able to look at a young prospect and think, with reasonable confidence, "Yeah, I'm ready to do this. This is going to be fun."

But at the same time, I recently fell into the position of helping an older gentleman with a nice Australian shepherd girl. This man just wants something to do with his dog, that he and she can enjoy. I don't put myself forward as a trainer, but a mutual friend arranged for me to take a whirl at being his instructor. I liked the guy, like his dog, so I said I'd do it.

That ... is sobering. This is a test of what I truly know, and not only that, a test of my ability to communicate what I know to someone else. He's not looking at showing or trialing this dog, so that is a weight off my shoulders. But all the same, I want to do the best possible job by him. I want him and his dog to discover success together, and here I am, presuming to know enough to not only think for myself, but also constantly measure and accommodate for the thought processes and abilities of another person and their dog!

So, I guess that's to say, sure, you'll get to a point where the pieces start fitting together and it all makes sense. To where you can step out with your dog to accomplish a task, and feel confident in your ability to get 'er done.

But as soon as you do, there'll be another peak of learning to climb! I'm glad it's that way, though. For me, the voyage of learning and discovery is kind of the point.
Cheers ~

Gloria
_________________
You ask of my companions. Hills, sir, and the sundown, and a dog as large as myself that my father bought me. They are better than human beings, because they know but do not tell. ~~ Emily Dickinson

[Haven]

In my own opinion, sheepdogging is like anything else worth doing in life. It's more about the practice itself than it is about getting to a certain point. The moment you believe you've reached a point, you're bound for disappointment.

The greatest things in life bring you into the present moment, and dissolve away the chaff of life that we so often mistake for the real stuff.

Sheepdogging is about being in the moment, and being alive. There is no point to get to, and what would you do if you got there? Call it a career and sell off your dogs an sheep?

It's about the practice itself, always learning, remembering the things you learned and forgot. Seeing what you read in a book come to life for your own eyes to see. Getting back to the basics after going too deep into nuance. Adding nuance when you're in control of the basics. Learning to understand a new dog, admitting that you're never going to understand another. Feeling the connection when your dog makes the exact correction that you had only managed to think about. Meeting people and hearing what they've learned. Learning to unlearn some of the things you've learned.

It's about accepting that you'll never have all the answers, and continuing the practice anyway.
_________________
Haven James

[Kensmuir]

Like many other things in life, some are better at doing something than others.

Some of us will never BE the greats - like Alasdair, like Derek, like Julie, like the "dangerous men" we've read about and watched and wanted to be.

Some of us will need to be content with being "journeyman" - trained, competent dogmen and women who understand what makes a good dog, who can take a dog and make them useful, and who can stand proud because we are journeyman.

Progress, not perfection is a good saying. So is, "repetition makes the master" - which is a better translation of the German saying than "Practice makes perfect".

It IS a journey - it can be seen as a metaphor for life and death, and the universe - thank you, Douglas Adams.

When it comes down to it, you are going to be as good as the time you spend at practice, the time you think properly about it, and are limited by the skills you are born with - just as your dog is limited by the skill set it inherited from it's ancestors.

Becoming happy with that is about the same task as being happy with where you are at on the path of life - always going forward, always trying new things, being accepting of who you are, but not necessarily content with where you are at - for "repetition makes the master."
_________________
Bill Gary
Kensmuir, Working Stockdog Center
W8101 690th Ave
River Falls, WI 54022
715.426.9877

[denice.r]

Bill,

I felt as thought you were talking to me directly today. I hosted Kevin Evans for a clinic here last weekend and he is truly gifted when it comes to working dogs. I walked off the field after working with him several times thinking - "Wow, do I have a long way to go." I will admit it was frustrating and a bit disheartening but I am determined to continue down this path. I will enjoy the small victories and work hard to be consistent and meet the challenges. I am working with a 5 yr old bitch who is really needing to to square up her inside flanks and get some distance off the sheep there, it is a struggle and far from fun but we will get there. Often I need to remind myself how far we have come and this journey will encompass a lifetime, there will always be something new to learn. We need to enjoy that incredible journey and working with each dog we are blessed to have cross our paths.

Denice

[Donald McCaig]

Dear Fellow Beginners,

25 years after I started working/training/trialing sheepdogs, I worked with Kevin Evans on my grippy dog. Only afterwards did I realize that his correction, on MY dog, had come a milisecond quicker than mine.

That's okay. Sheepdogging has been a wonderful, magical mystery tour of some of the finest people, the most inspiring dogs and beautiful country in the world.

The ribbons and payback aren't as frequent as I'd like but last night my June bought dinner for a friend and myself.

I love learning and it's a rare trial where I don't understand a little bit more about this brilliant, amiable, unpretenteous world.

At a Finals not long before he died, somebody asked Ralph Pulfer - "Say Ralph, how much do you figure you understand about this?"

Ralph disappeared into his RV but returned having thought about it for an hour.

"I figure fifteen percent," he said.

Donald McCaig
_________________
Yucatec Farm, Williamsville, Virginia 24487